An Interview with Warren Andrew Slay, Part 23
I know it is unlikely that any reader will notice that parts 9 through 22 of my interviews with Warren Andrew Slay are missing. The interviews were conducted, but he wouldn’t let me publish them. Why? Excellent question. I can tell you what he told me; he said that the ground covered in those interviews is too sensitive. He said he is writing a novel exploring the topics we covered. I have no reason to doubt him; he has never led me astray.
Oddly enough, he called me to conduct the following interview. I wasn’t accosted by any mysterious figures trying to get me to ask him specific questions. The following has been conducted on his behalf and at his request. I am not sure what to make of it. Good luck if you decide to read on.
RTNM: So, you asked to meet with me. I have to admit I was surprised to hear from you. What do you want to talk about?
WAS: Tardigrades.
RTNM: OK, what about them.
WAS: You know about them? I am a bit surprised.
RTNM: I know lots of things, including a few things about tardigrades. I must admit, I find them fascinating. Why do you want to talk about those most interesting creatures?
WAS: Easy; I have a question.
RTNM: Just one?
WAS: Yep.
RTNM: Well?
WAS: Are they conscious? Are tardigrades self-aware? Do they realize they are tardigrades spending their days doing tardigrade stuff?
RTNM: Umm…
WAS: Exactly. That is my point. “Umm” might be the perfect answer. I have to tell you, this whole thing is fascinating. The idea of consciousness and which species or objects might have it.
RTNM: What are you talking about?
WAS: Look, consciousness is either emergent or somehow fundamental. In either case, there isn’t a more fascinating question human beings can ask about us and our place in the universe.
RTNM: OK, if consciousness is emergent, it somehow is a product of the brain. It emerges from the biological system that is that 3 or 4-pound lump of flesh.
WAS: Sure, for us. But what about the microscopic tardigrade? If it is indeed conscious, can we tell? And it if is, how did that happen? How did the evolution of tardigrade consciousness stumble upon the current state?
RTNM: Right. So you are saying that we not only need to explain how human consciousness evolved, but we also need to figure out if critters like tardigrades are conscious.
WAS: Yes. And if we decide they are conscious, even though I am not quite sure how we would do that, then we need to be explicit about any differences we think we see in tardigrade versus human consciousness.
RTNM: Oh boy. So, you think there might be levels of consciousness?
WAS: Truthfully, the more I study consciousness, the less I know. It is a very hard problem to approach. I used to be totally ignorant, but now I am getting a better understanding of what I don’t know, which is a big deal. I am putting a more refined point on the types of questions I am asking. The problem is that it doesn’t help me answer any of them. Fortunately, I am in good company. No one knows what is going on with consciousness.
RTNM: I think, therefore, I am.
WAS: Yeah, sure. You know there is something inside of you that you consider as you. You experience the world, see, smell, and have things to talk about. You are sure of that, but you can’t explain what consciousness is or where it comes from. Descartes couldn’t either. Neither can neuroscientists, physicists, philosophers, or the odd archaeologist. And don’t get me started on the religious “scholars” and their theories.
RTNM: What is wrong with those theories? Aren’t they as equally valid as any other?
WAS: Good grief. In science, appeals to the supernatural are not allowed. You can’t step back, say God did it, and call it a day. Is there anything more uninteresting than that? I will tell you this, I am convinced that all the religious fixation on the human soul is nothing more than a discussion about the nature of consciousness. For me, a soul and consciousness are the same thing.
RTNM: Well, la di da, let me send a message to every religious leader I can think of. I am sure they will be interested in your ideas about the soul.
WAS: As I have said many times before, no one, and I mean no one, cares about what I think regarding any topic. People know my lips are moving, but no one listens to what I am saying. Typing is even worse. No one bothers to read anything. Did you know that? Do you realize that you spit into the wind whenever you interview me?
RTNM: I do not think about such things. I just put my head down and go. My existence does not depend on the number of people influenced by your shenanigans.
WAS: Count yourself lucky. We were talking about consciousness. I think that consciousness might just be fundamental to the universe. That means it did not evolve in any Darwinian sense of the word; it just is and always was. As long as there was a universe, consciousness was there simply because it goes along with the package.
RTNM: Well, that is totally unsatisfying. I am surprised to hear you say that.
WAS: I’ll tell you what; I do not believe that the universe owes us any answers. As I look outward, I see no indication that the universe I am living in has any reason to ensure that I am satisfied with any intellectual voyage I might set sail on. Totally indifferent, does not care, not even a little.
RTNM: So, consciousness might just be fundamental, and that means what for us?
WAS: First of all, we all will be very unhappy with that scenario. Try as we might, we will never figure out how consciousness emerges from our physical brain because it doesn’t. We will not make any progress asking about the consciousness of tardigrades because they have “tardigrade consciousness, ” which is just the way it is. We would search for evolutionary answers to a process more fundamental than evolution itself. It all really is very curious.
RTNM: If consciousness is fundamental to the universe, it seems that the implications would be profound.
WAS: No kidding. Panpsychists believe that consciousness permeates the universe and that it is fundamental. One of my old professors thought this was so long before it became fashionable. One day he held up a piece of chalk and proclaimed it had “chalk consciousness.” Of course, no one can know what that type of consciousness is relative to human consciousness because we don’t know anything about human consciousness.
RTNM: I sense you believe there is much more to it than that. Otherwise, I do not think you would have consented to this interview.
WAS: Think about this. If consciousness is fundamental, if it is not simply something that emerged from our physical brains, then it is within the realm of possibility that our consciousness could survive the death of our bodies.
RTNM: That is fascinating. You don’t think that is true, do you?
WAS: All I Am saying is that if consciousness is not an emergent property of a tardigrade “brain” or a human pile of flesh, then I have no idea what is going on. Maybe we are in a simulation. I heard one philosopher claim that if he were a betting man, he would lay his money down on 20% odds that we all live in a computer simulation.
RTNM: That can’t be true, can it?
WAS: The Matrix is one of my favorite movies. It is the first movie that I have watched over and over. As far as our reality? Who knows? I am not paid to have an opinion one way or the other. I will say that there is some intriguing evidence that consciousness might be fundamental and that we all, unlike Neo, took the blue pill.
With that, as unbelievable as it sounds, there was a power outage, and Warren was gone. It is going to get very cold tonight, and I hope the power comes back on. As for Warren, I am pretty sure his power is also out. The storm that hit us is massive. Lots of snow with raw, high winds. You would think that a simulation coder would be more sensitive to this stuff, but if that person doesn’t care about what happens… well, you get my drift.
